SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This is the Brownie Troop Mom, class Mom, whatever Mom. She did all the Mom things while I worked long hours. Luckily, I had a job where I never missed a game my kids played in and I had the pleasure of coaching both of them in sports for over ten years. I did all the Dad stuff too. This was not the case of an absent husband/father.

I could see if this was just a guy that she had a quick fling with and came back to our marriage but four years, completely unprotected sex and with someone involved with my son? That’s too far. Who is this woman?

This aspect of betrayal is truly dizzying. The person that you thought she was vs the person that she became (or really was?). How could the two exist in the same mind and body?

A while back, I started a thread in General to try and deal with this topic entitled "Cognitive Dissonance vs Duplicity" and the many contributors did help me gain a deeper understanding. You may want to peruse it. You can find it here:

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/658091/cognitive-dissonance-vs-duplicity-/

So basically, you have discovered that the affair was not the two years originally shared by her, not the three years she amended it to, but four years.
Not two BJ’s, but full sex, to full unprotected sex.

Basically – exactly what we would expect based on experience on this site.
Trickle-truth…

Way back on my second post on this thread I shared:

Honestly – nothing so far about your story is surprising. It’s at unicorn-level of probability that a betrayed spouse gets the truth on d-day. This form of minimizing and drawing out the truth… that is expected rather than surprising. "Only" oral for two years is the infidelity version of "dog ate my homework".

I also see another common trait we see here on SI:
That’s where you grow increasingly indignant about her actions, based on your latest discovery.
Like…. BEFORE all this happened, I guess you would have said that ANY affair would automatically lead to divorce. Then it might have been only oral and under 2 years. Then it’s 3 years and some sex. Now it’s 4 years and plenty of unprotected sex…

It’s very easy to have a very clear line in the sand, as some have suggested. However – notice it’s in SAND – not stone. The important factor IMHO is that YOU draw the line according to YOUR needs and belief, and you are allowed to draw that line in sand and move the line if you want to. I have a belief – based on personal experience on various life-traumas – that it’s easy to draw lines for others, but harder to enforce them for yourself. The key issue IMHO is that once you reach your breaking point – I think you also have a sense of acceptance and peace with realizing you are done with redrawing the line.

Sissoon – a calm voice of reason – said correctly:

IMO, the stay/go decision is not logical. It's emotional, and emotional logic does not follow the rules of scientific method. For example:
I haven’t changed my belief that staying with her would eliminate my own self-respect.
OK. That's that, then.

If you truly believe your own statement, then why do you need to know more? Same question that Sisoon asks.
Think that staying with her without any self-respect is going to work?

I am simply challenging you to really think through if you are venting here when you say it’s over, or if you are being honest with yourself. Is the latest truth from her the straw that breaks your back?

Only YOU can make that call.
But if it is, then ongoing truths won’t change anything. You have enough for the next steps, and you should focus on that.
If not – if this is you venting – then I encourage you to get the truth and accept that it will hurt. But knowing the truth is what will enable you to decide your future relationship with her.

Your next steps are definitely a major decision for your life.
I think that waiting SOME time for major decisions is generally beneficial. Of course, you need to be very clear on if you are waiting, or accepting, or adapting. At some point in the near future – NOW if what you say about never again having self-respect, maybe 2 weeks or 2 months or whatever if you realize the line only needs to meet your needs.

What I do warn you about is that the END GOAL is to get out of infidelity. You can do that if you divorce AND separate your lives. You can do that if you reconcile and deal with the infidelity. You definitely can NOT do that by rug-sweeping and/or leaving things unsaid and unhandled.

The other problem is we’re starting couples therapy

It is much too soon to start couples therapy. That should happen only after you have healed yourself and your wife has healed herself.

The reason is that couples therapy is to help heal the marriage. However, your marriage isn't what cheated... it is your wife... she is the one that cheated.

If I were you, I would hold off any couples therapy or marriage counseling until you both have mostly healed yourselves. Many threads on this site have told of horror stories when couples begin counseling much too early after D Day and before individual healing has occurred.

Many counselors, who do not have experience with counseling couples who have experienced infidelity, will try to spread the blame for the cheating between the betrayed and the betrayer. Of course the person betrayed had nothing to do with the decision for their spouse to cheat... only the cheater made that decision.

Other counselors will try to get the couple to rugsweep the affair. They will say the past is the past, and only the future matters. You just need to forgive and move on... in other words, just rugsweep the affair.

My opinion is that until the cheater clearly demonstrates remorse... not regret, but remorse... the betrayed spouse should not engage in any type of couples therapy... only individual therapy for both the betrayed spouse and the cheater.

I wish you the very best of luck.

[This message edited by lrpprl at 8:46 PM, Monday, March 23rd]

Bigger- I’m a little confused and still reeling from all the information I’ve gotten. Likely not thinking straight. I don’t know if I’m still even living with her because I’m worried about her safety or the kids or because I’m compromising in some way already.

Lrpprl- I understand about the marriage counseling and I do feel she needs to address whatever made her want her affair before we get anything figured out. I’m hoping for a little push to show her how to communicate about this and maybe we can start talking honestly at least. Without that, there’s no chance for our marriage at all.

Thank you to everyone who is giving advice. It helps!

Being confused and unsure and feeling vulnerable is normal. Don’t worry about why you’re still living with her. This is a very difficult time. Be there for your kids. Don’t feel bad for wanting her not to hurt herself no matter what happens in your M. No one handles this shitstorm perfectly. Be true to yourself and your own values. I am also wary about couples counseling but you have stated your reasons and it makes sense. Sending support. Time is your ally.

Friend – I have always seen only two ways to get out of infidelity, and that is divorce or reconciliation.
Sounds obvious, but IMHO probably by far the most common and IMHO WORST outcome is rug-sweeping of some form. Happens even when people divorce, but remain emotionally involved with their ex, as if divorce was an alternative form of marriage.

At SOME POINT you need to determine what path you want, and which path is open to you.
Although it’s probably best to reach that decision soon (seeing as it should eventually lead you to healing) then it’s BEST to reach that decision knowing it’s the one that’s right for you and available to you.
Your last post confirms what I thought, and that is that you probably haven’t reached that point yet.

Why did I think that? Well… just like your wife’s affair and her trickle-truth is following a pattern, your reaction is so too.

I’m going to suggest the following – and point out what I believe the biggest risk with this suggestion:

Unlike many here, you are dealing with a past-affair. It’s not active. She’s not sneaking out of the house, nor does it seem like there is contact between them. The affair won’t get "worse" because you have to be vigilant and might catch them at the local park after dark.
Whatever happened has already happened. I guestimate you have about 80% of the valid "truth". What you have left to learn will definitely HURT, and it might be what determines if you want this marriage or not. But it will be TRUTH. It will either give you a clearer picture of what you might be reconciling from, or give you more peace with a decision to divorce.

Since the affair has already happened, and since you "only" have a fixed pile of untruths to reveal, then AS LONG AS YOU ARE CONTENT there isn’t much harm in YOU deciding when YOU make your decision.

You aren’t a spring-lamb. You have been around. You probably know that the worst decisions are the ones made when angry, confused, or on unverified data. We sometimes need to decide right away on assumptions. Like if your smoke detector goes off in the middle of the night, you would rush your kids out and phone the FD based on the assumption there is a fire, rather than ensure the detector isn’t faulty. But here – in your instance – you have the benefit of TIME.

So my suggestion is this:
Take a calendar and circle a date – maybe 30 days from now.
For that time you are not making/revealing any non/hard reversable decisions on your future. If you can envision it, then set a reasonable and attainable goal for that date. One I could suggest is that at that date you have a sense that you know the truth about the timeline and events of the affair.

This gives you time to emotionally heal. Gives you time to evaluate if your emotions are leading you the right way. Gives you time – because you care – to push WW towards emotional support AND build up her support (empowering you to choose divorce, if that turns out to be your eventual choice).

As far as MC goes, then yes – we generally don’t recommend MC early on. But you could go there with a mission:
"I am not decided on if I can work through the fact she had an affair. As-is I don’t believe I know what took place, but my imagination has created a scenario that I don’t like. For me the goal of these sessions is to get to the truth about what took place.
Her not sharing the truth is to me a clear sign that she doesn’t trust me, but I need the truth in order to possibly remain married. I can only base my decision on TRUTH."

One warning about the MC: If he even suggests the affair was because of the marriage… sack him… Ask him if he would also be telling a rape-victim that the rape happened because she wore a low-cleavage dress…

That circled date? Only need to be accountable to yourself. If you feel at peace with a decision before that date that’s OK. But it gives you the peace-of-mind of having a plan – an agenda – and alleviates the sense of you not doing the "right" thing already.

The fault in my plan? The danger? You really need to be self-critical on if you are rug-sweeping, adapting to a semi-content marriage with unresolved infidelity issues, or actually making progress. The big risk is stagnation. Something that leads to what I described as the WORST outcome.

Finally:
I have been thinking about what to tell your kids. Seeing as they are semi-adult and assuming they know of their mom’s suicide attempt, AND under the assumption that there is risk of her trying again.
I would tell them the truth. But I would do so in as non-judgmental way, and with the expectation that they use the truth to support their mom moving on.
Like:
"Kids. Mom and I are in a marital crisis because she revealed to me a past affair (your call as to the detail). That affair is over and has been for some years, but my suspicions over the years has strained the marriage and it came to a head recently. We are working on how to move on, and there is high probability that I won’t see a path forwards for THIS marriage. However, no matter how I might feel she wronged me then she is and will always be your mom and needs your support in moving forward. Mom and I will deal with our marital issues, I will decide on my marital future, but I expect you to support mom and to do so you don’t have to condone her affair or attempt to punish her for it, or take sides with either me or her. After all she has done for you as your mom, she deserves your support. You know of her recent suicide attempt, and I am sharing this so you understand what caused it, and to enable you to support her in preventing a repeat."

Some people find a formal separation, guided with legal advice, can be a step where some clarity emerges on the D or R choice.

You could always use some of the time in your marriage counseling session, based on what the counselor will know about your marriage, to get a good recommendation for an IC for your WS.